FORWARD BASE B

"Pay my troops no mind; they're just on a fact-finding mission."

The SWPL Paradox: Why Rule By High IQ Fails Miserably

All around the world, the development of nations correlates pretty well with a population’s average IQ.   Therefore, we could designate a ruling caste based on IQ, right, and be better off?  Easy enough.

In real life, though, the high IQ upper middle class and above already has great power just by being high status trend-setters congregating in the center of big cities where all the machinery of influence lies.

Yet rather than bringing in an age of enlightened rule, the SWPLs have consistently collaborated against their own people and tried to destroy their nation, from misguided feel-good idealism and putting their short-term gains first.

We need only imagine for a moment what the USA would look like if the yuppie intelligentsia seized total control and enacted their agenda in full.

The USA would become a temperate zone version of Brazil with no borders, no concept of unity, and crushingly low wages.  Poverty, strife, and tribal warfare would run rampant.  Just like the rest of the third world the SWPL elite would live in walled-off compounds where they would shop at Whole Foods and sip frappuccinos in peace, forgetting the rest of society exists while donating money to Somalia with crocodile tears of signalled virtue streaming down their faces—just like they do already.

Actually, I’m sure they’d ruthlessly “gentrify” any areas they moved into, relying on their armed enforcers to force out anyone who couldn’t be removed by skyrocketing rents so they could have another cute shopping district where they could buy organic dog biscuits for their toy pets.

Total rule by educated urban professionals would have been more violent, unjust, impoverished, and oppressive than Central American dictatorships.  Already, they have long since lost the mandate of heaven through their gross negligence and incompetence, a fact even they are becoming dimly aware of as national politics steadily slips out of their control.

Why were they as a group worse at ruling than any Joe Sixpack taken off the street would have been?  At least average Joe might not have been actively malicious and contemptuous towards the people he’s ruling.

The first, most obvious flaw, is lack of skin in the game.  Rule from provincial capitals encourages disconnection.  However smart someone may be, you have to have experience.  You can’t become a doctor or a pilot by reading books. Having a culture that spreads equalist propaganda to people who don’t have the experience to know otherwise just makes it even worse and assures terrible leadership and government.  Yet, they chose to accept what they were taught without critical thinking and swallowed the scam hook, line, and sinker.  This fact is perhaps more significant.

While IQ predicts the performance of population as a whole, it’s clear we need further criteria to determine who should rule.  Clearly, personality traits, neurotype, thinking style matter just as much.

A good example is the massive under-performance of East Asian people relative to their IQ and huge populations for many centuries even though they are objectively smarter than Europeans.

Elite US universities have to include special subjective rules to ensure model minority students don’t become a majority.  Chinese and upper-caste Indians outcompete whites without too much difficulty.  Yet in spite of this, their homelands have been stagnant fiefdoms of foreign powers until recently.

From what I’ve observed, they have the same problem as the SWPL lesser aristocracy.  Their high levels of organization and extreme conscientiousness and work ethic makes them the perfect cubicle workers.  But they are incapable of independent thought and action.

Every friend I’ve had who’s been in academia says the same things about students from Asia: They cram and memorize stuff for when they need it, but don’t really understand the material. What’s more, many of them had to be in good favor with their government’s brainless indoctrination to get selected for foreign study in the first place.

As far as I can tell, upper middle class whites are those most compatible with the Asian mindset and probably originate from similar selective pressures.  Their neurotype and phenotype is just not as widespread.
I recall watching League of Legends championships and noticed the few whites were as weedy, gracile, and diminutive as their Asian counterparts.  Both the white and Asian players exhibited these traits to a greater extreme than an average Asian would.  What we call “nerds” in the West simply became more normal in densely populated rice civilizations.

Another test is necessary, then, besides IQ to determine a ruling caste.  While autistic bean-counters are put to good use within the low to middle ranks of bureaucracy, they are incapable of rule.  It is not even in their temperament to rule themselves, let alone others.

There has to be a way to test for genuine curiosity and understanding as opposed to just manipulating symbols.  Even more so, a barbaric penchant for internal locus of control rather than civilized unquestioning conformity.

From my own experience and reading history, it seems humans come up with new ideas and conquer when they have good IQ and teamwork combined with just the right amount of barbarian wildness and individualism.

It seems otherwise hard to explain how the rocky tip of the Balkan peninsula or a small and rainy island might have created the most enduring ideas and inventions while having the greatest military might and empires of their times.

When I was in Korea sometime back, I thought their society very much superior in many ways.  High IQ made itself obvious in everything from monumentally more effective city planning to more subtle signs like having a whole TV channel devoted to the game of go.
But watching crowds stand patiently at crosswalks, almost in rank and file, even when no cars were nearby told me in one instant why they’ve never conquered the world and why their cousins in the North consent to be ruled by one of the world’s worst governments.
A nation of Africans with 100 average IQ would have potential to become far more dangerous than they are.  Neurotype and temperament matters in people just like it does in breeds of dogs—it’s just considered very impolite to notice.

42 responses to “The SWPL Paradox: Why Rule By High IQ Fails Miserably

  1. pibcola April 16, 2017 at 5:16 pm

    Feel like there will be a lot of comments on this article.

    > Chinese and upper-caste Indians outcompete whites without too much difficulty. Yet in spite of this, their homelands have been stagnant fiefdoms of foreign powers until recently.

    Racial nepotism gives you big advantages in atomized civilizations. See how programming shops become Indian infested once a Hindu gains a managerial position. Or see how many non-Asian workers work in your local Asian market regardless of demographics. That sort of game doesn’t work in their homelands where everyone else is playing.

    > When I was in Korea sometime back, I thought their society very much superior in many ways. High IQ made itself obvious in everything from monumentally more effective city planning to more subtle signs like having a whole TV channel devoted to the game of go.

    You become masters of refinement with a high IQ + low openness to experience + low individualism. Just get stuck being masters of the squared wheel without ever thinkin’ a round one was feasible.

    Regardless, I haven’t seen much great innovation in the past 10-20 years. Everything tech wise just seems to be refinements of old ideas, nice packaging/repackaging of old ideas, or implementations of old ideas that weren’t feasible with better hardware.

    > It seems otherwise hard to explain how the rocky tip of the Balkan peninsula or a small and rainy island might have created the most enduring ideas and inventions while having the greatest military might and empires of their times.

    Any thoughts on how we whiteys can recreate these sort of environments/milieus for innovation/creation/dominance? I don’t want to end up with half the real estate/businesses in my country in the hands of rent-seeking foreigners investors all because ‘muh globalism’ and ‘muh capitalism’.

    • Giovanni Dannato April 16, 2017 at 5:27 pm

      There’s more to their success than nepotism. They do well in academics even where they don’t have inside contacts. I also notice that more than any other people, Asians can sit and focus on one thing 16 hours a day 7 days a week. They are relentless. Furthermore, they try to fulfill the task at hand to the letter of the rules. They aren’t encumbered by self-actualization or “making the world a better place.” I have to admire their purity of purpose.

      Recreating the conditions for a golden age civilization is something I’ve already thought about a fair amount.
      Here’s something I wrote years ago:
      https://hereticsway.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/the-dimensions-of-culture/

      • pibcola April 16, 2017 at 7:44 pm

        > There’s more to their success than nepotism.
        Agree. I’m not trying to argue against their intelligence nor their output. I’m also wary of those dismissing Asian accomplishment with claims of CHEATING or THEY CAN ONLY COPY!?!!? But the nepotism is still a factor.
        > They do well in academics even where they don’t have inside contacts.
        Just a small counter point. I see lots of racial nepotism types plays in many PhD engineering/science programs that I’ve poked around in. Chinese professors’ grad students for some reason always seem to be 90% Chinese with a token white guy thrown in here and there.
        And I’m not sure they will do well as a group in the future. Maybe ten, twenty plus years ago when most foreign Indian/Chinese students were grad students coming from IITs and Peiking Us, but now were getting second/third tier type students of rich parents pouring into undergrad who flunk out after a semester or two.
        > I also notice that more than any other people, Asians can sit and focus on one thing 16 hours a day 7 days a week. They are relentless. Furthermore, they try to fulfill the task at hand to the letter of the rules. They aren’t encumbered by self-actualization or “making the world a better place.” I have to admire their purity of purpose.
        Agree. I do admire their ability to focus. This is why they are the Gods of refinement/learning to the rules/test. But I still question the utility when pushed to extremes. This sort of total following the rules leads to mindless mimicry and slow improvements. Laziness is a virtue sometimes. Plus the 9-9-6 world doesn’t seem too optimal.

        I’ve just become disillusioned by the number of foreign Chinese/Indians I’ve run into who look down upon the West and proclaim to be the future masters of the universe. It is nice to get some good technical talent from India/China, but I’m not sure [brown SJWs](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/4/stanford-admits-ziad-ahmed-teen-who-wrote-blackliv/) add much to our societies.
        Regardless, I’m thankful the Indians/East Asians have given us the impetus to get our act together.
        > https://hereticsway.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/the-dimensions-of-culture/
        Thx for linkin’ the article. Lots of great thoughts in the comments too.

      • Sam J. April 18, 2017 at 7:24 am

        “…There’s more to their success than nepotism…”

        The nepotism comes in when you compare their average engineers, programmers, etc. to Whites. When they control a section or work area they hire their guys first. Same as when the Jews started controlling the Ivy League colleges they became students WAY out of proportion to Whites as or more qualified.

      • pibcola April 18, 2017 at 6:24 pm

        @Sam J

        > The nepotism comes in when you compare their average engineers, programmers, etc. to Whites. When they control a section or work area they hire their guys first. Same as when the Jews started controlling the Ivy League colleges they became students WAY out of proportion to Whites as or more qualified.

        Agree. As I noted before, at mid-tierish PhD engineering/science programs that I’ve poked around in, there is tons of racial nepotism. I’ve seen signs that say -> ‘ENGLISH ONLY. No Chinese/Hindi speaking allowed in the lab’. Chinese professors’ grad students for some reason always seem to be 90% Chinese with a token white guy thrown in here and there. Same for Indians. All cases of average foreign students getting picked over average American/white students.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 18, 2017 at 7:17 pm

        I hear you about the nepotism, but they have to get in first. Something American Blacks haven’t succeeded at even with state aid. Initial focus and workaholism is a jab that they follow up with the knockout punch of communal favoritism. Have to admire a successful strategy.

        I would be the first to agree with you about strategic laziness and idle theory. For prole sorts and bean counters a moment of idleness sets them towards the devil’s work. For those with any agency, idleness is what art and ideas are born from.

      • pibcola April 18, 2017 at 11:54 pm

        @Giovanni Dannato

        > Initial focus and workaholism is a jab that they follow up with the knockout punch of communal favoritism. Have to admire a successful strategy.

        It is a wicked combo, done in the open, and with no push back. It just seems like there is a total lack of willingness for self-preservation. Asian/Indian business get tax breaks/contract preference? Why? Why am I at a disadvantage against minorities/foreigners in my own country?

        Anyways, is there a good counter to this neopotism? Or a way to turn it to our benefit? Saying we need our own neopotism is obviously the easy answer, but how is the hard part? What sort of form should it take? Or should I just give up, and prepare myself for our new yellow/brown overlords?

      • sunhater April 19, 2017 at 12:33 am

        @pibcola

        “Boycott”

        Since Americans are so obsessed about Capitalism, there is nothing wrong if a certain Demographic (say… Whites) doesn’t buy goods or services from businesses that just happen to be owned by minorities.
        THE INVISIBLE HAND IS NOT RACIST!!! IT’S THE FREE MARKET OWN WILL! He-He-He

        You WASPs got into this mess because for you Money/Status > Blood.

  2. Jacob April 16, 2017 at 10:08 pm

    There are some great insights in this article – well done. The West is infused with quite a lot of individualistic barbarism and mostly as functional parts of the system. One of the reasons there is such difficulty integrating cultures is that every other culture despises both individualism and barbarism while the West exploita and enjoys both in its own special ways. The West is essentially controlled barbarism – barbariam as a tool or a thrill-seeking adventure. It explains why SPWL is often deadly to non-whites. Whites take risks that others don’t, even to the point of death – and enjoy it. Ever seen a Chinese or Indian bungee jumping? Western Civilisation often looks and feels like a carefully crafted and highly sophisticated theme park in which the white savage is free to exercise the whimsy of invention and the amusement of caprice – test resistance, so to speak. The problems have always been when the white man tries to turn other cultures into the same, whether offensively or defensively. The solution may simply be to lock the whites in their own enclosure and let them roam free.

    • Giovanni Dannato April 17, 2017 at 1:52 am

      Thank you, great comment. Makes me think of Alexander Supertramp(McCandless) a DC area hipster who got himself killed up in the middle of nowhere in Alaska trying to prove himself after many other risky adventures.
      I’ve done lots of stupid things like writing this blog, making my own sourdough cultures, or making full-strength wormwood absinthe by infusing ingredients into vodka when I could have been making money putting time into a profession. Plenty of times in my 20s I might have injured, impaired, or killed myself. There’s a method to white Euro madness that’s put them ahead of the competition for the last 500 years. It’s like dandelion seeds in the wind, like biblical seeds, most of them landing in a rocky places or among weeds, but a few winning the lottery.

      • sunhater April 17, 2017 at 2:42 am

        Since I am still in my late 20s and I had my share of adventures, I can relate to what you and Jacob wrote, even better one of my “guilty pleasures” is to systematically torments bean-counters of all races by simply raising their awareness of the inevitability of death and their pointless sterile ersatz lives.

        I swear many of them are content to just practice some crude form of escapism and childish wish-fulfillment, kinda like Walter Mitty fantasies but “socially acceptable” so to speak.

  3. Just Call Me Fishmail April 16, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    Ah, you’ve met “the dangerous people” then …
    “The dangerous people” = IQ from SD +1.0 to SD +2.5 inclusive.
    (16 SD IQs: 116 through 140, 15 SD IQs: 115 through 138.)
    There are several problems with these people that make them dangerous.
    1. They lack the understanding necessary for certain complex abstractions.
    2. They generally do not know how much they do not know, or that this is an actual problem.
    3. They are essentially minimally competent in intellectual terms and will form ad hoc groups to defend their identities.
    4. They will use ad hoc power structures to attack the competent in ways that tend to force them out of public life.
    5. They are smarter than the bulk of the population while still being within reach of that bulk’s level of understanding, making them better able to solidify their positions through a collective narrative.
    Whereas most people may see these as problems that reflect broken societies, some of the “inappropriately excluded” see things a bit differently.
    You see, we’re just tourists here, but this isn’t immediately obvious.
    Let’s consider the SD 0 “completely normal person”. To him or her, the SD -2.0 and and lower people would be profoundly retarded, while the SD +2.0 people would be considerably more intelligent. And so (in 15 SD terms) all of the IQ 70 and below people are dumber than sacks of stones, and all of the IQ 130 and above people are super smart would-be rocket scientists, at least to the SD 0 normal person.
    Now let’s change the normal distribution point and re-normalise the center at SD +3.0, meaning that IQ 145 (SD 15) would be a new IQ 100. That would make all of the people prior to re-norming with IQs in an SD +1.0 range or below out to be complete and utter morons, while all of the people with IQs in an SD +5.0 range or above would be deemed super intelligent.
    This should illustrate the problem of really bright people in engineering and the sciences a bit more readily: re-norming the centre to SD +3.0 actually means that you’ve moved the centre so that 99.87% of people are below the centre point. The completely and utterly moronic would then constitute 84.13% of the population.
    Given this profound level of disconnection from “the average person”, the highly intelligent simply continue the disconnection and live their lives at some remove.
    Think of the real cognitive elite as tourists who will smile and wave while doing absolutely nothing to help most of you out, because that’s considerably closer to the truth.
    In fact, in raw statistical terms, it is highly unlikely you will ever meet any of us, at least in person.
    As far as “great advances” go, the sufficiently broad and sufficiently insurmountable qualitative differences between iterative discovery and innovative discovery nearly guarantee that these “great advances” are almost always leaps instead the result of plodding grim determination.
    While it may seem that the typical normal IQs for most fields would lead you to dismay about the state of the “world’s brain trust”, keep in mind that what this shows is that by plodding grim determination, the bulk of Homo sapiens sapiens gets to enjoy the slow route to the future, and so it isn’t overly threatened by its appearance.
    The real point of dismay should be why the rest of us haven’t decided that we need an exit strategy that doesn’t include everyone else, and I believe you’ll find that we’re not the ones advocating for open borders and other such nonsense.
    We’re really quite fantastic at playing at being “good tourists” before going home, and perhaps we too may leave behind some confusing artefacts for future generations.
    I’m sure there will be plenty who would ascribe to malice what was actually an attempt at relieving boredom through the pursuit of amusing ourselves, and so if there are any reading this who feel threatened in any way by it, do keep in mind it was all done with a smile.
    🙂

    • Giovanni Dannato April 17, 2017 at 1:17 am

      How much more intelligent is a farmer than his livestock? Yet he manages them beneficently giving them easy lives with no cause for pain or worry until the sacrifice of their lives is required. Their ease is in his best interests.
      I guess I believe that human rulers, however exalted their intellect should try to make life decent for most. Even a raving psychopath finds it easier to shear the sheep(collect taxes) that way.
      That’s the trouble with SWPLs; they can’t just be tourists buying aged elk jerky dog treats while people starve. They soon find 100,000 hungry guys with 70 IQ are perfectly capable of breaching the perimeter and cutting them and their families up with machetes for people ribs on the barbie. That’s the stupidity of the elites. I mean if you doubt that, just look at former Rhodesia(DiCaprio: “Rhoooawhdeeeiijhaia”) and South Africa.

      I understand the “remove” you speak of and am considering writing a post on the “undertow” effect within an ethnic group. I see it as the root of SWPL disdain for “flyover country.”

      Actually, plodding iteration is how evolution works and it seems amazingly effective if given time to work itself out. But yeah, humans have come up with a different process that’s orders of magnitude faster and more effective. That’s why I believe in eugenics and ultimately, transhumanism. But I don’t think the singularity will be here on time for Kurzweil.

      For some reason I hear your e-voice like HK-47 from KOTOR. Something similar happens whenever I try to read Mencius Moldbug. I think it’s the snark.

      • Kanzen April 17, 2017 at 12:36 pm

        As one of those with +3 SD IQ, let me add a bit more info on why people like us are unlikely to rule.

        The relation of high IQ folks with the general population are not of a farmer and his livestock, but of a intelligent human living amongst a society of violent chimpanzees.

        You cannot reason with them. You cannot share value with them. You cannot even help them. If you express thoughts or actions that challenge the chimps’ way of life, you will be ganged and shredded to bits. Despite having superior wisdom, you are vastly outnumbered, out-powered and out-emotioned. Over time you forge a chimp-like mask to deal the with world while psychologically become more and more distant and don’t give a fuck. You become a smiling tourist, like Fishmail said.

        Most high-intelligent folks, especially the INTJ types, starts with a ardent heart wishing the best for the world. But they soon learn the naivety of trying to communicate with the society in the way they think. So they either give up and retreat to their own world, or they learn to be machiavellian and good in acting. Either way cause them to see the general public as a different memetic “species”, which is an accurate insight, but depressing nonetheless.

        It is much more mentally taxing, and more difficult in practice, to be consciously machiavellian while still holding +3 SD IQ insight and moral compass for what is good for the world, as opposed to being unconsciously machiavellian and just go with whatever ideology being indoctrinated or is in style, like the +1 to +2 SD IQ intellectual elites do. I wager only those with a superman mental fortitude can handle such a job.

        In additional to the difficulty, there is also the lack of reward. Most people are partially driven by fame, recognition, power, money, etc. While I cannot speak for everyone, in my case I have lost much interest in these. I don’t enjoy fame/recognition as much as a human don’t enjoy fame/recognition among a group of chimp. Power or money in themselves means very little to an introvert intellectual. And if I do want them, it is only because I decide to change the world and I need them to accomplish it, but they cannot motivate me to change the world.

        So, until the world stop ganging up on people with different minds, most true intellectuals will remain smiling tourist.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 17, 2017 at 1:26 pm

        I just know my brain works differently from others, including the intellectual and educated people I meet.
        Possible I’m mildly aspie, but I’ve met people who are clinically on the spectrum and I don’t fit that profile.
        I know well the experience of having little way of relating to the society from an early age and having different interests than the other kids. I wrote a whole blog about it which I then made into a book.
        I pretty much spent my 20s learning the basics of interacting with “normies.” I was in the middle of the process when I wrote the introvert blog. I think the way to approach it is to see it as a puzzle that has to be solved to go any further. Or else you’re just a helpless tourist with a sardonic smile.
        I’ll never identify with the culture I was born into, but I do live in it. Stuff that happens affects me and I can act on the world. So I know the feeling you and fishmail are expressing but a fatalistic, nihilistic attitude is like poison. I’ve been in that same frame before myself.
        The bottom line is, whether you are a sentient human or a brainless tree, you use what you’ve got to overcome the obstacles you encounter. And if you can’t accomplish that, you perish.
        And I know how you feel about money and fame. When you don’t identify with others, it’s really hard to care what they think of you. I too see those as tools to fulfill objectives and they’re not always the best tools.

      • sunhater April 17, 2017 at 8:24 pm

        I agree on Kanzen view on “chimp society” especially since I called similar people King/Queen of the cockroaches to their faces. These people flaunted their kind’s “qualities” such as simplicity in thought or the “virtue” of belonging and fitting into the group.

        As a 6’4″, 100kg aggressive man born in a machiavellian household I can get away with so much crap! I’ve seen these “normal people” only gang-up against the weak!
        My latest endeavor is to convince unemployed proles to become opioid addicts since their pitiful factory job was their IDENTITY!!! Can you believe that!!! So much for the view of humans as rational, enlightened beings!

      • Giovanni Dannato April 18, 2017 at 3:19 pm

        I’m not saying that the concept of a chimp society is wrong. What I challenge is the only solution is cynical fatalism. It’s true if hardly anyone you meet is like you, that’s a tremendous starting disadvantage since society is the medium humans live in, especially when helpless in childhood. In many ways, a borderline retard is better off. But you can’t just go to the main menu and start a new game. We have to work as best we can with the hands we’re dealt. We have certain unusual tools at our disposal we have to put to good use overcoming the challenges before us and then to establish our niche in the human ecosystem.

      • Jacob April 17, 2017 at 8:56 pm

        I regularly get stoned for being prophetic. It’s not soothsaying, just a recognition of potential consequences from recognisable patterns. The stoning comes from those who hate the warning, heed the aversion strategy and avoid the pitfall, because the predictable result didn’t come to pass.

        Lesson: people crave prophetic warnings but hate getting them from other people. Therefore, study the Bible, become a preacher and put it in God’s words. No more stoning.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 18, 2017 at 3:34 pm

        I feel like you get it. Instead of despairing that it’s a chimp society out there, you put your wits to use to find a hack. If the abilities are there you have to use them in ways that will help. Much of the time, that means learning to understand how humans and human society works. To write the next great novel or make a scientific discovery, first you have to avoid getting stoned to death.

      • Kanzen April 18, 2017 at 4:14 pm

        I was not advocating cynical fatalism. I simply describe what very high IQ people go through and why they are unlikely to become the rulers as your main post suggest. Very high IQ people do usually find a somewhat acceptable way to live the life and may find some interest to pursue, but public activism is rarely the main interest.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 18, 2017 at 5:09 pm

        Haha, I would never dream of suggesting public activism. I would hope you don’t think that little of me. I guess what I find missing from the tourist mindset, is the concept of being able to act on the world in some meaningful way, whatever that may be. Even if you have a good job and comfortable life, however talented you are, you still spend your life under middle management making someone else rich.

      • Kanzen April 19, 2017 at 5:05 am

        Well to be a ruler you do need public activism. As for doing something meaning to the world, well I guess many would wish to, but reality usually severely limits what they can do. Eking out a life is hard enough for people without natural advantages. Another problem is that it is really hard to both organize high intelligence people while also working towards high intelligence-derived goals. It is something I think about and wish to solve someday.

        If you remember, I once commented that an authoritarian society is inherently degenerative, and the idea of authoritarian rule by high intelligent design is infeasible. If a civilization and its human wisdom continue to advance, in the long run it will probably become more libertarian, not authoritarian. You wrote in a earlier post that libertarian free market are unworkable, but I think your critiques were based on a superficial (mis)understanding of free market and missed the intricates of how such a system would evolve and stablize itself.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 19, 2017 at 8:52 pm

        “Public activism” sounded like you wanted to stand on the roadside with makeshift signs or lamely lobby congressmen about Very High IQ discrimination. What you mean, then, is playing public games of politics, institutional or otherwise. True enough, everyone has to do that.
        I spent most of my 20s eking out survival but I fought to get myself out of that hole and now I am more free to interfere in things. Odds are against any of us doing anything that will matter much in the long run. But we behave as though that is not true or nobody would try to do anything.
        I feel like you are working on the right kind of problems. You are not just a tourist, then!

        For the majority of people, with little thought of self-control, extra freedoms just give them more room to ruin their own lives. I believe in an authoritarian system for most and freedoms for those who are most likely to be responsible and use them well.
        To some extent, I was speaking to the hypocritical meaning of “free market” as used in right wing discourse. I know the wikipedia meaning just means a market that’s allowed to find its own prices. In practice, though, it means lobbyists are complaining about rules that don’t benefit their kleptocrat masters. I thought it of key importance to point out that not only can governments regulate markets, they absolutely should and must.

      • Kanzen April 19, 2017 at 9:48 pm

        > I believe in an authoritarian system for most and freedoms for those who are most likely to be responsible and use them well.

        But then we need a authoritative system for all, to determine and enforce who can enjoy what freedom. This system will be corrupted. If such a system is not authoritative for all but a result of stratification, then it is really just a free market phenomenon.

        > more room to ruin their own lives.

        It doesn’t matter that they ruin their own lives. What matters is that they don’t spread the stupidity to a level that ruin the civilization. This problem is too large to discuss here. For now I’d just note that a discriminating caste system need not be the only solution. There are cleverer, subtler ways of population control.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 19, 2017 at 10:23 pm

        I understand blog comments are pretty limited, so what are a few ideas or thinkers somewhat in the same neighborhood as your thinking, if any?
        If you have good answers to the big question of : what replaces the present social order, you should consider putting them out there, and not just on someone else’s blog.
        I, for one, would be very interested.
        I would note we have free-market stratification of sorts and yet we seem to agree the results are unsatisfactory.

        My experience suggests, that most people, just like children or dogs, respect rules, force, dominance above all. In fact if you give them too much freedom, they will hate you for it.
        So you find a way to let outliers rise up while keeping the rest in their places.

      • Kanzen April 20, 2017 at 6:47 am

        While I’d like to, I am too occupied by my other endeavors to spend time on blogs. I am more commited to creating better economical structures with technologies.
        Two things to consider:
        People, whether smart or stupid, responds to incentives. The crude way is to enforce overt negative incentives, eg punishment in enslavement / caste system, to force people to act in some way. The subtle way is to structure the game such that it incentivize people to act in some way. Obviously, economics, cultures, ideologies, government policies, etc has such effects, though not always for the better. What I propose, then, is to find some systems that is flavorable to higher human values and is actually realistically workable in future civilizations. I believe such a system would need be underpinned by economic means.
        Another thing is that a more libertarian approach doesn’t mean you get to do more things unconstrained. It means that the constraints are organically evolved by market forces, rather than from a centralized authoritarian power. A more libertarian society will probably results in more practical constrains to the unproductive – they don’t get to do whatever leftist stuffs without consequences and they cannot breed like rabbit with welfare. Essentially, it limits their power to spread stupidity. You can still dominate those who needs domination while doesn’t make them feel enslaved. It is like a man who dominate a woman with frame and power rather than using physical force.
        > we have free-market stratification of sorts and yet we seem to agree the results are unsatisfactory.
        This market is controlled by a unfree government though. The more lucrative a niche is, the more it is controlled to ensure caste-like stratification.
        I understand that many think that a “real” free market will in time degenerate into a government anyway, so it is no solution at all. But lets throw away the jargons and stereotypical concepts and look at the essence: a social system is fundamentally evolved by the competition of powers. There are many nuances and intrications of how powers can compete and structure themselves. What we want then, is to find a strategy such that the power that represents our higher-value can flourish. (It is a somewhat redundant statement, since what we perceive as higher-value are essentially more powerful forms of existence.) And I think a better market is an essential component to this goal.
        I am sorry I cannot write in more detail. This is too complex a topic. If you would like to connect with me please see the email posted with this comment.

  4. sunhater April 17, 2017 at 12:41 am

    “Neurotype and temperament matters in people just like it does in breeds of dogs—it’s just considered very impolite to notice.”

    Everyday I thank Nature for my Mediterranean hot-blood!!

    • Giovanni Dannato April 17, 2017 at 12:52 am

      You’re no Calabrese, Sicilian, or Neapolitan!

      • sunhater April 17, 2017 at 1:20 am

        I assure you that “Southern Italy” really begins in Tuscany, local social/civic trends provide solid evidence to my statement;
        Consider it more as a Lite-Southern Italy, by that reasoning a better alternative to the cliche-ridden hot-blooded term could be “warm” blooded.

        The “North” has been kept in check, not by (allegedly) “fairer” blood but by Industrial Life!!!
        To filthy pellagra ridden peons, even tedious assembly line work can be considered an ennobling experience; Only mindless clockwork toil can instill order in the lives of the dim-witted.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 17, 2017 at 1:36 am

        But they have white pizza with a thin crust!

        To be fair, when I went there, I found in Milan, McDonald’s was the only “restaurant” open for siesta time. So had better luck in Basque Country and Catalonia in Spain than I did there. Have to admit the Veneto felt basically West European but waiters still took their time because of the guaranteed 12% gratuity built into the check.

      • sunhater April 17, 2017 at 2:35 am

        How many years ago have you visited Italy?
        In Rome, it’s even worse since they apply “tourist prices” if they don’t identify you as a local, even fellow italians are treated like “foreigners” !!

  5. Sam J. April 18, 2017 at 2:43 am

    “…It is much more mentally taxing, and more difficult in practice, to be consciously machiavellian while still holding +3 SD IQ insight and moral compass…”

    I could see that. I see people tormenting others and I can not fathom their motivation for it. I do see some of their motivation but what motivates me is not what motivates them.

    Here’s a good link that describes how it’s not the great thinkers but the doers that have created the reality we live in. A corollary to this is when various technologies are introduced philosophers generally attribute the brain to them. When mechanics were big the brain was a big machine…when computers were big the brain was a huge computer…etc. The philosophers were only working within the paradigm that the technical were working with.

    http://www.isegoria.net/2017/03/masters-of-reality-not-big-thinkers/

    • Giovanni Dannato April 18, 2017 at 3:55 pm

      Tormenting is pretty simple, really. It’s an easy way to gain status and dominance within a hierarchy. Dogs and monkeys do the same thing. I remember watching a nature show on primates and seeing these little monkeys approach a crocodile and snake infested river for a drink. They’d send in the lowest status members of the group first as scouts. Just like in human societies, the low in status have to take the dangerous, dirty, and humiliating jobs and rather than getting thanks for their sacrifices, that they had to do it reinforces they are undesirables.

      It’s true in general that people of action are those who bring real change, which the stereotypical scholar is not. It’s a flaw I identified in myself awhile ago that I look up to philosophers who really didn’t get much done. I mean look at the ideas of Nietzsche or Schopenhauer in contrast to their actual pathetic personal lives. A good question I learned to ask about our heroes I learned from the redpill sphere: “Do you want to be them?”
      Socrates or Plato by contrast seem like they would have been pretty cool guys. Spinoza, Newton, Tesla, many others were neckbeard shutins, I suppose, but I think the concept helps prevent an excess of the aetherial principle that leads to omegadom.

      • pibcola April 19, 2017 at 5:06 pm

        It seems like the rare combo of high IQ + disagreeableness + introversion + openness to experience can lead to unique, world-shattering breakthroughs, but is also a recipe for omegadom, especially in societies that don’t tolerate eccentrics.

      • Giovanni Dannato April 19, 2017 at 8:35 pm

        In one sentence here you lay out a recipe for, and explanation of a personality profile. Nicely done.
        I figure that combo gets rarer as people are civilized longer, because they’re potential threats to both entrenched power structures and social norms.
        But societies that can give volatile types a place at the table might benefit. Hard to imagine our own system today would have much patience with guys like Socrates or Diogenes.
        Come to think of it, Diogenes Gets Taken in to the Local Police Station would make a nice comedy skit.

      • pibcola April 21, 2017 at 9:08 pm

        > I figure that combo gets rarer as people are civilized longer, because they’re potential threats to both entrenched power structures and social norms.
        > But societies that can give volatile types a place at the table might benefit.

        It seems like the Jewish community has a decent method (of which I don’t know the details) of turning high IQ neurotics/eccentrics into highly productive people (or they know how to support them). Whites, and especially Asians aren’t good at this. Maybe Jews are more successful not *just* because of the IQ gap, but also because they milk much more out their talent pool?

        It seems whites got the most out of their high IQ weirdos/eccentrics when upper class eccentrics/weirdos had servants/mothers/wives whose purpose was to take care of their daily needs and cover for their foibles? It seems a lot of high IQ eccentrics aren’t good at the daily life stuff … and these days science/scholarship requires lots of executive functioning (grant proposals, running labs, partaking in committees, refereeing journals, communication with large teams etc) that many geniuses of the past would not have been able to handle. Off the top of my head, Newton/Einstein/Nietchze clearly had poor executive functioning.

        In 2017, a 130-145 IQ with high executive functioning will get you further career wise then 145+ IQ and poor executive functioning. This is good for individuals with those traits, and probably makes SCIENCE INC grow incrementally and run more smoothly, but I’m not sure it is good for science nor society as a whole => we have lots of complex problems that need to be solved and can’t be solved by committees/consensuses of highly functioning 130-145 IQ people who are science grinding/LARPing mostly for social points.

        Anecdotal => most of my younger professors in uni fit the 130-145 IQ, high executive functioning category, while most of my older professors were clearly 145+ish and eccentric in one way or another … so are we further pushing out the eccentric geniuses?

      • Giovanni Dannato April 21, 2017 at 9:32 pm

        We share many similar observations. Ironically individualism means corporations aren’t just individuals, individuals are corporations. Everyone has to be their own marketing department, RandD, human resources, and executive. I think you’re right there used to be more of a notion of the best, whatever their foibles, for any given task and other people would handle getting them funding.
        The top people are going to suck at executive because to be most effective they’re devoting 100% of their bandwidth to whatever problem they’re working on. Even small distractions can be surprisingly disruptive and I think having to do everything for oneself reduces the potential of the best to put out their best work.

        It’s one of the worst indictments of having an open society that an entrenched aristocracy funding the arts and sciences tended to produce superior results.
        I was reading Agony and the Ecstasy some years ago and as the author portrayed it, many of the artists knew how to brown-nose important people but also had to have talent. The nobles cared most about impressing others enough that if a sperg like Michelangelo was good enough, they’d still hire him.

      • pibcola April 21, 2017 at 10:00 pm

        > We share many similar observations. Ironically individualism means corporations aren’t just individuals, individuals are corporations. Everyone has to be their own marketing department, RandD, human resources, and executive. I think you’re right there used to be more of a notion of the best, whatever their foibles, for any given task and other people would handle getting them funding.
        > The top people are going to suck at executive because to be most effective they’re devoting 100% of their bandwidth to whatever problem they’re working on.

        I was searching for executive function by race/ethnicity stuff and ended up @ Nick Land’s blog => http://www.xenosystems.net/twitter-cuts-92/ => quite a pithy way of summing up your comment above!

  6. Sam J. April 22, 2017 at 7:03 am

    This is why there’s failure all over. Reading “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins” helps clarify things also.

  7. Just Call Me Fishmail April 22, 2017 at 7:14 pm

    How many oddly creatures there are here! How munificent this mankind is! O brave long thread, with such comments in it! 🙂
    “How much more intelligent is a farmer than his livestock? Yet he manages them beneficently giving them easy lives with no cause for pain or worry until the sacrifice of their lives is required.”
    Just as the post-Galileo conception of the solar system does not require God to be located in the centre, my conception of humanity does not require a “farmer” managing them in their entirety on a global feed lot.
    How is it that yours does?
    “I guess I believe that human rulers, however exalted their intellect should try to make life decent for most …”
    I believe in no such thing, but I don’t believe in the extreme opposite. However, it was in fashion during a long period of Soviet history, from the time of Leon Trotsky through the era of Josef Stalin, to believe that the people needed to be hungry in order to be encouraged to do anything of significance.
    Going from this to Iago’s credo in un Dio crudel is not exactly a huge leap, for what it’s worth.
    “So you find a way to let outliers rise up while keeping the rest in their places …”
    Not at all. “Good Tourists” are eminently forgettable.
    I suppose I keep showing traits of being a “Bad Tourist”, for reasons that will eventually become somewhat obvious.
    “I guess what I find missing from the tourist mindset, is the concept of being able to act on the world in some meaningful way …”
    Hey buddy, when you’re done with that Promethean fire, could you spare a light? 🙂
    BTW, so glad you could welcome me to your episode of “Welcome Back KOTOR” … but in truth, my voice is much more like that of The Architect; ergo, concordantly, this is how you will now hear my voice.
    Less mechanical, more other-worldly, and let’s not forget to eliminate the crappy vocoder artefacts — they’re quite intolerable to well-conditioned ears, and refinement is typically much more civilised. 🙂
    Ah, and let’s not leave Kanzen out of this, shall we?
    Kanzen: “So they either give up and retreat to their own world, or they learn to be Machiavellian and good in acting …”
    What cannot be abandoned may be simulated until it is no longer required.
    Carry this idea forward to the concept of “an encapsulating society” and I believe you’ll realise some of what I was getting at earlier.
    Encapsulating complexity as simplicity and explaining the artefacts as a kind of qualia of reductionism works in the general case to convey the shape of knowledge, but not what lurks within it. This usually satisfies the merely curious, and the remainder gets what’s coming to them, good and hard.
    It may amuse you for a while to contemplate how the simulation of knowledge as qualia serves various useful ends, especially the kinds where the true nature of the knowledge must not be revealed …
    That’s where the greatest mistake usually starts.
    I think that’s quite enough of my being a “Bad Tourist” for now. 🙂

    • Giovanni Dannato April 23, 2017 at 3:01 am

      Haha you’re a funny guy like funny man Rocco.
      The Architect mostly spewed word salad. Lots of “deep” stoner ruminations about cause and effect in that movie, best part was the female orgasm caused by computer code in a slice of cake.
      Actually right now your e-voice makes me think of Dr. Orpheus.

      I don’t see any inherent obligation in making their lives great. But if it becomes better to phase them out, would rather it be more or less pleasant and painless as can be. Would rather always leave a full spectrum at least in “seed banks” to increase chances of species survival. You never know, knuckle draggers might be more fit.
      “Qualia” is a jargon word for the feeling of water being wet. Potentially useful but mostly lame, especially how pretentious asses like Dennet bray about it.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: