Politics Societies

The Problems of Secession and Dissolution

Frustrated dissidents often speak in favor of some kind of secession.  Sometimes they wish California seceded, other times they wish there was a new Southern Confederacy or just some kind of “White ethnostate” carved off from the rest of the country.  They also like to call for a dissolution of the United States.  They are tired of being stuck in a cosmopolitan declining empire.  Escape starts to seem like the best, easiest, most equitable solution.  The truth is there’s no easy way out.

Firstly, allowing the secession of California would be idiotic and disastrous.  The nation would be letting go of its best seaports, best farmland, best tourism, best economic productivity, its greatest cultural output and for what in return?
The peoples who took over California would be lavishly rewarded for their subterfuge and treason.  Such an easy victory for them would not mean peace in our time.  It would only embolden their advances into a crumbling empire that has signaled a pathetic unwillingness to defend itself.  If people think the US border is bad now, imagine if the whole length and width of California were added to it.

Independent California would be a hostile enemy nation constantly conspiring against the USA.  If we cynically suggest that’s no different than now, let’s consider this Californian state would be free to make its own foreign policy.  They would be natural allies of China.

Even if we imagine only limited city states ended up seceding instead of the entire state, they’d all have Chinese military bases on them in no time to guarantee their security.  And in a little time more, they’d magically end up with nukes so they could be North Koreas in America extorting the rest of the country for electricity and water.  The USA would never again have a whole continent to itself unchallenged by any other major power.  Any sort of Californian independence would go down as one of the greatest geo-political blunders in history.

The idea of secession from the USA is little better.  Cynics like to say we are oppressed and abused by the government now.  Imagine what level of abuse becomes possible if the dissidents are all in a new country the US doesn’t even have to pretend to rule.  They could impose sanctions, foment regime changes, send drone strikes while chuckling to themselves at how their opponents were kind enough to be easy targets in a perfect kill-zone.  Volunteering to be a smaller, weaker, nation right by a greater and more powerful one is dumb and disastrous.  

The secessionists would be deluded if they thought they’d be part of the legitimate world order just like Canada.  They’d be shocked how quick there would be UN resolutions declaring their new country a “rogue state.”  Aid from the “international community” would not be forthcoming.  Perhaps other “rogue states” around the world would send money and weapons but the result would just be a prolonged, bloody, pointless guerilla conflict for an increasingly isolated and impoverished territory.

Some might propose the peaceful separation of the United States into its consituent parts.  They’d be foolish though to think this arrangement would stay peaceful.  We can look at the dissolution of the Soviet Union as a good example.  Some parts of the old empire are bound to be more powerful than others if they are not divided up with the balance of power in mind.  Then the greatest remaining state constantly conspires against the weaker states surrounding it. 

We must also consider how alliances would fall into place.  Perhaps a New Confederacy and Midwest Republic would get along but would find themselves trapped in the pincer of hostile coastal states where more wealth is concentrated.  Canada would align with the remnants of the establishment powers while Mexico and the Narco-States would be opportunistic.

Of course, powers from other continents would have their proxy machinations in the divided states of America.  They would more likely support the Coastal Nations since so many of their investments are located in the major cities and because many are already members of the globalist empire.  Futhermore, just as in the US Civil War, the establishment alliance would likely end up with most of the naval power and be able to deny the Red America alliance access to its own international allies. 

The Red federation might even be allowed to exist so long as it dutifully sent its raw commodities to the coasts but it would never be allowed to grow too high or have the wrong sorts of leaders without being deftly pruned back.  In the end, flyover country would still be flyover country and the coastal cosmopolites wouldn’t even have to waste any time governing it anymore.  It would be like a very large Panama.

Thus even the dissolution of America would be another failed attempt to keep postponing problems that must be confronted and solved.  One empire and way of life must achieve total victory.  If the power of the Imperial Capital were completely broken, its international empire would unravel soon after.  If only weakened, the combined weight of the world’s liberal democratic, blank slatist regimes would reinforce it and slowly strangle all opposition once and for all.

One of the most common things right wing people say is “We just want to be left alone.”  There’s no such thing as being left alone.  A polity either has enough power to defend itself or it is subjugated by a stronger power.  Only on a North American continent where opposition was relatively weak after the early 19th century could such a notion be seriously thought of. Just imagine how expecting to be left alone would sound to Polish or Ukrainians?
The trucon cuckservative fantasy of noble retreat into wilderness fallout shelters must be tossed in the trash once and for all.  It is a pathetic, self-pitying, cowardly, failed idea.  Any successful group must completely focus on objectives that lead to decisive victory.

For the dissidents this lies in adopting the 4th generation mentality in every way.  The 19th century nation-state is a strategic liability in the 21st.  Worse, it is an obsolete political unit outside of a few major centers of power.  The US does not invade Canada, for example, because it has no need to.  Canada is already an integrated department of the economic empire.  It is better to forget about the hollow formality of lines on a map and instead operate within established cultural, legal, and political structures—and as in jiu jitsu—use the opponent’s own limbs and leverage against him while offering no easy way to hit back. 

The default ultimate goal should be to retain the entire territory of the US. Entertaining the idea of secession or dissolution is the reverse of how we should be thinking.

It should be incumbent on hostile and invasive groups to leave if they are displeased, not us.  Those allowed to stay would understand they live here at the good will of their generous hosts with no ability to participate in politics, finance, or any part of the state.  They would from then on be 2nd in line after core tribal members.

By Giovanni Dannato

In 1547 I was burnt at the stake in Rome for my pernicious pamphlet proclaiming that the heavens were not filled with a profusion of aether, but rather an extensive vacuum.
Now, the phlogiston that composed my being has re-manifested centuries in the future so that I may continue the task that was inconveniently disrupted so long ago.
Now, I live in Rome on the very street where I (and others) were publicly burnt. To this day, the street is known as what I would translate as 'Heretic's Way'. My charming residence is number 6 on this old road. Please, do come inside and pay me a visit; I should be delighted to spew out endless pedagoguery to one and all...

27 replies on “The Problems of Secession and Dissolution”

Secession is ridiculous. But the answer is. . .mass deportation, a wall? Yeah, but I don’t see it being done.

“There’s no such thing as being left alone.” Tragically true. In this world, you don’t own anything that you’re not strong enough to keep from others.

y’know, if Dickie Spencer and Jagoff Don-0-van get their “whites only” ethnostate, I imagine it would collapse as quickly as a radical feminist colony. The best whites would not be drawn to this and also very few white womyn. You’d have a bunch of lazy white guys who thought they were “master race” and maybe a few mail order brides. In fact, I’ve heard tha NAthan Damingo married a Mexican Womyn. His kiddies will be mestizoes….

sorry, couldn’t help myself…

I have heard Detroit has gone through a renaissance of sorts and hipsters love it (at least sections) there, I have also heard that section of the country has a huge opiod epidemic….

You are spot on about the urge to be left alone being foolish,

That said I can’t see any reasonable plan in which the .alt right can force the coastal elite to live according to .alt right standards or even if somehow that could be done that the incompatible urge to leave and be left alone can handle subversion . Leftism is subversive by it nature

This leaves either some kind of directorship by the Right or a war to the knife as the militia types are fond of calling it. There is no win conditions from mass casualty events

That said I suspect the US will separate no matter what since we have less ideological and ethnic foundation than the old USSR . That will still be a historical disaster as you noted but its not avoidable

And while I agree that in theory mass deportation of newcomers would suffice (30 million plus) this is a society that can’t repair its infrastructure and is dysfunctional at every level . Short of outright ethnic cleansing its not doable

Increasingly is no us in the US

“I can’t see any reasonable plan …”
military coup by evangelical colonels, please please please
are you listening, evangelical colonels?
Save us, evangelical colonels.

The military officer core is mostly college educated Leftists these days . The only reasons they haven’t had a junta and put someone tot the Left of Mao in charge is despite that some are still honorable , the enlisted won’t cooperate period (they are mostly all Right Wingers) and a US insurgency would be too difficult to put down, nigh impossible actually

The exception seems to be the Air Force but they can’t hold land

That said a more solidly Conservative administration could do well to counter-purge the Leftist officers out and it could be done with executive orders since the President in Commander in Chief

In the end it is going to come down to “we the people” before anything like that is possible the cultural detox we are undergoing will have to finish and some basic achievable goal and social platform will have to be created

Keeping in mind that the Alternative Right ,NrX and the other “Not them” factions are barely a decade old its going well , quite fast actually.

Prior to that it was a fringe element that even thought in those terms, its percolating down faster than ever and once that’s done, the real work can get started.

Since I never approached the dissident sphere from a conservative angle, I’ve never had the unwarranted reverence they seem to have for cops and military. I’ve always seen cops as power-tripping ex-military shitheads who are best avoided. Disabusing the right of it’s high opinion of the blue is one of the best parts of Charlottesville. They needed to have that illusion stripped away. The next big black pill for those right wingers is that the military is somehow on their side. Most military officers I’ve known have been establishment to the core with a sociopathic streak. If there is any sympathy from the military it would be from non-commissioned officers and the rank and file. And things would have to get pretty extreme for them(i.e. being ordered to fire on White demonstrators) to do anything. The best the altright can hope for right now is to keep the military dormant until public opinion has overwhelmingly shifted.

You’ve just criticized the way the Hindus think. They just want to be left alone. After letting go of Pakistan and Bangladesh, and the swift genocide of the Hindu minorities there, they now want to let Kashmir go followed by Bengal, then Assam, then Kerala, then the North east followed by the Coastal Southern states till it is all gone.
I did not realize the American Right wing thinks as if it is led by Gandhi, but this time without any support within the establishment. A Gandhi becomes a Gandhi only when one faction of the British establishment (Fabian Socialists) backs him to antagonize the other faction which is the imperialists. Gandhis are partly created, not wholly Born.

A lot of alt-right and NRx guys are former Commies and Anarchists who’ve just found a fun new way to be anti-American, so Gandhiism comes naturally to them. Half the time they still talk like ultra-sensitive guilty-feeling Commies and Anarchists who want the Dark Other to forgive them for being awesome.
Our host is honorably anti-American and anti-Anglo, since apparently English isn’t even his native language so I guess he’s Belgian or Dutch or German or French or something, but for Americans to be anti-American is just shameful and really disgusting. Russians honorably fought for Stalin in WWII, so I don’t care how twisted you think your rulers are, Americans — be on your own side.

I am American and English is my first language. Many NRxers are former libertarians some of them with the anarcho part. It’s more accurate to say they are extreme individualists than anti-American. I don’t know of any that could have ever been called communists, they pretty much all despise it.
I would say NRx rougly divides into two wings:
-Technocratic Ex-Libertarians
-Traditional Christian Western Revivalists
I have never gelled with Anglo culture. I hypothesize it may be because too much of my blood comes from outside the West side of the Hajnal line in Ireland and among the Ulster Scots. I have noticed Celts and Slavs seem well represented in the altright.

As for Gandhi/MLK style strategy to work you have to have:
-At least some established powers on your side.
-Sympathetic media portrayals
-An established sympathetic mass audience.
-The tacit threat of radicals turning to violence and disruption if civil disobedience doesn’t work.

The alt-right are the radicals so the inherently moderate civil disobedience strategy is not theirs to play.

Oh — sorry — thought I was posting on Spandrell’s blog — was on my third 7% alcohol beer I think, and got confused about where I was. Spandrell has said that English isn’t his first language. He seems anti-American; you don’t seem at all anti-American. I associate Lalit with Spandrell’s blog — that’s why I got confused. I’m sorry — I screwed up.

(Actually it was the second, I now recall, but drunk rather quickly on an empty stomach — then I ate a pound and a quarter of hamburger meat and drank the third in bed while reading Luigi Pirandello’s One, None, a Hundred Thousand … Pirandello’s a genius! Why doesn’t anyone know about him?)

Never heard of Pirandello. That’s a lot of hamburger. U paleo? What kind of beer you drinking? With the fall coming on, I’ve been enjoying all the new releases coming out, first pumpkin ales showing up.

While right now I can’t see this being done, separation, or a revival of White power but you never know. It’s been said over and over that when 10% of the population becomes die hard, won’t take no for an answer, set on change it will happen. It could happen fast. How far are we to that point? I suggest it’s closer then you think.

Lets assume this has come about and the Red States have decided 100% that they refuse to be pozzed by the Blue States anymore what could they do.
1. Change the voting system to be only people with some skin in the game. Possibilities. Only people who can read English that have children and own property.
2. Force the open illegal election crowd to use verified voting systems that can’t be rigged. I know how to do this with simple sheets of normal paper, cams and normal desktop or any other type computers. Each vote could be verified and counted with no ability to change the votes. Everyone could independently check their vote to make sure it was not tampered with and anyone could count the votes themselves.
3. Once we do that it becomes a much more White native electorate.
4. Change the laws so that regions have a house in the several States. Just like the US Senate but within each State. This what most States used to have balancing the cities and the countryside before it was ruled unconstitutional due to civil rights. This would, even in the Blue States, cancel some of the power of the cities. I believe a lot of legislatures have the power to pass this against the cities wishes even though the cities have more population. I can see Michigan and some of the Mid-West States pulling this off..
5. The Blue States have for decades been dumping refugees into the Red States territories, (One of their pets just murdered a bunch of people in a church in Tennessee that was dumped there). With the change in power due to voting changes we start building massive super quick build high rises in all the areas where they say they want diversity then dump the whole lot of them there. They’ll complain but…not enough to matter. Over time this will completely destroy any wish for diversity no matter how much the Jews and Leftist want it. They will have it and it will suck.
6. All the people that immigrated legally throw them out immediately, all those given citizenship who don’t speak English, (contrary to the law), throw them out and cancel their citizenship, all those who have ever taken any welfare if they can’t pay it back throw them out and in general throw out anyone for any technicality they find at all.
7. Change the immigration laws with our new voting majority only letting Whites until we outnumber the other races by a large margin.
8. Stop section 8 where the Nogs pozz communities and steal peoples value in their houses that they paid for all their lives. Pack all the people on welfare in high rise mass built apartments.
9. Build walled apartment blocks in Liberia, Nice ones, and give Blacks the opportunity for reparations. They get $250,000 in five blocks with, here’s the killer, $50,000 up front if they agree to move to the apartments and give up citizenship. How many ghetto Blacks do you think could give up the opportunity to get $50,000 up front, including the same for their minor children, $50,000 for each one? I don’t think they would be able to pass it up. At the same time pass work rules where they live in the mass produced apartments and have labor for 30 hours a week picking up trash or whatever. I bet a minimum of 50% sign thinking they could riot and get the whole thing turned over and keep the money but things would have changed and we could round these people up. The ones that didn’t meet their boat or plane could be treated much differently as they would no longer be citizens having given up that right. Round them up and ship them out all within a year or so. The time needs to be short as the Liberian savages could not be held up long from attacking the apartments. We should also arm them once they get to Liberia so at least they wouldn’t be defenseless.

All this could be done in a very small frame of time. The cost would probably be about double the present welfare cost which would rapidly go down as the people we’re feeding went down just as rapidly. I think over a ten year period we would save a fortune if you counted law enforcement, jails, welfare and most of all lost productivity from not being able to even walk around cities without being murdered or attacked. All this would just take willpower.

“All this could be done in a very small frame of time” by alt-right super-AIs deploying cyborg-armies and drone-fleets produced in a network of factories hidden deep beneath the Ozarks and Appalachia.

Yeh I know it’s going to happen. I did say before I noted all these happenings that the country had decided that something had to be cone so if that hurdle was met then, it could happen.

Actually tailored plagues are more likely and increasingly easy to make with over the counter technology . We are not quite there yet nor to race specific ones but its well within scientific possibility

I prefer Sam. J.’s idea though as there are a fair number of Black people like some of my neighbors who are good folk and my countrymen .

That 10% idea is why I don’t see how it’s desirable or necessary for the US to split up. Most people just parrot what ideas are cool right now to get sex, power, and money more effectively. Within a couple years of the Globalist empire’s defeat, most people would have already forgotten all the stuff they used to believe. The upper middle classes would have to be aggressively re-indoctrinated and those who don’t make the cut demoted to permanent peasant status. And obviously, the formerly high status people would all have to be ritually humiliated and cast down until people feel a sense of pity and embarassment just thinking of them.
Splitting the country into antagonistic enemy nations on the other hand would guarantee a couple centuries of strife. The people who set it up would be viewed in history books kind how we see Neville Chamberlain.

“Globalist empire’s defeat” by whom? By Americans, I hope. I mean, I’m on my own side. An American Diocletian would be, what, a Scots-Irish (=Illyrian?) Air Force colonel?
A coup by evangelical colonels would be beautiful. That’s what I want, at the moment. (Not that I know any colonels. I just hear they’re cool people.)

Good article, Giovanni. By the way, I’m thinking about giving you a nickname you might like. Since in your email to me you said you think “meta” most of the time how about Meta Falconer?

M.F., in reply …

You’re missing the one way America could realistically break up. And that’s if the CORPORATIONS ran the mini-enclaves in place of government and there WAS no government. We’re heading that way already … So much so that I’ve even begun writing a fiction book where there are only 71 companies left independent in the world, there are Coca Cola wines, and Harvard is a bigger economic entity than #60 Citibank. It won’t be on my website, but there’ll be other things there. Check it out sometime. X.

My avatar is a vulture actually. I used to be a falcon.
Haha you’re talking about a Moldbuggian/Stephensonian “patchwork.” I just see that as another one of those silly libertarian fantasies.
After, don’t you know in the end, Taco Bell wins the franchise wars?

I see the emergence of Neo/Techno Tribalism rather than the “patchwork” as a better model of what’s happening. The article I just posted is about that.

l agree one million percent. We take it all and the winner gets it all with each participant on our side getting full citizenship with all its rights. Everybody else loses the right to vote, or dies, or gets deported or sent into internal exile, e.a., homosexuals that will not stay in the closet.

Peace thru strength.

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